Democrats Agree. They Are Coming For Our Freedoms

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Evil
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Re: Democrats Agree. They Are Coming For Our Freedoms

Post by Evil » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:24 pm

KC_ wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:18 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:12 pm
KC_ wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:08 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:03 pm
KC_ wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:00 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:56 pm
KC_ wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:53 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:51 pm
KC_ wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:49 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:42 pm


I see. So it's the status quo for you. If some middle class shmuck is unlucky enough to be diagnosed with cancer then it's their problem if they die or go into financial ruin. Thank you for your honesty.
Nah we have Obama care . Everything is fixed . I mean that’s what the Democrats said when they passed it. :nesaitpas:
We don't have the PPACA anymore. Without the individual mandate it can't work. No one said everything was fixed. Some were honest in saying that it was a step towards single-payer which is the goal.
Their are a great many people that like their insurance and want to keep it. Come up with a plan that leaves them out of it and maybe it will be more popular. How about Medicare for some more.
There is utility in saving lives and not ruining people financially. The Medicare for all plan is quite popular. I would recommend getting comfortable with the idea that for-profit health care is going away. It's inevitable. We may first get a public option depending on who gets elected, but single payer is coming.
Tax credits to pay for insurance premiums makes more sense. We don’t have to completely change our Heath care system to make it more affordable for the lower middle class and the poor. I still think people should be able to choose what level of care they want if any.
We do have to completely change it. For-profit doesn't work in health care. It can't. The incentive isn't in good outcomes. That's a part of the reason why we pay so much more per capita than other industrialized nations. If the incentive were to cure rather than treat the cost would come way down.
I think that’s overly optimistic. Tens of Millions like their healthcare and they want to keep. Why do they have to lose the right to choose ? The government forcing a lower standard of care on people against their will. That is the anti-liberty aspect of it .
They haven't even seen what they will be offered yet. A more efficient system that costs less with a high standard of care will be beneficial to all. We don't get a choice on everything in life. I pay taxes to fund schools even though I don't have kids. We don't get to choose which cop patrols our neighborhood or which fireman puts out the fire on our property. In all cases, for good reason. Health care is no different. People should say they don't want something when they don't even know what it is.
If you don’t like the community you live in you can move to one that you do. The federal government should be taking choice away from its citizens and forcing an inferior system on them. Medicare is inferior to good private insurance. Let people choose what they want if anything.
You still don't get to choose those things. Whether or not the product, which is unknown at this time, is inferior is a personal opinion. People are going to choose the system that cost less and gives them the same or better outcomes. If wealthier people want to supplement their coverage with private insurance, something Canada allows, then so be it. Making every doctor "in network" is something that appeals to everyone. Imagine not getting his with a surprise bill from an anesthesiologist because even though your doctor and the hospital were "in network" the anesthesiologist wasn't and no one told you.
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barrysoetoro
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Re: Democrats Agree. They Are Coming For Our Freedoms

Post by barrysoetoro » Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:08 pm

evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:16 pm
KC_ wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:12 pm
barrysoetoro wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:55 pm
psk836 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:46 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:28 pm
psk836 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:49 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:29 pm
KC_ wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:06 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:54 am
KC_ wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:14 am


Please expand on that.
Both poll much higher than 50%
Polls change over time . Luckily we don’t govern by them .
They show us trends and they shouldn't be ignored.
Kind of the gist of my first response to KC....
Sorry, I didn't get that from it. I saw you splitting it in half, which it's not, with the trend going in favor of them both. This is how this country works. We have to endure at least 4 years of a power-hungry, corrupt ego-maniac and then you're going to have to endure something, eg Medicare for all and better gun control. The pendulum will never stop swinging.
What I see is that there is a big group of people like KC and me that embrace liberty and individual responsibility, but I also acknowledge that there is a large group like you that wants guaranteed security and centralized decision making.
Is radically far-left as evil has become, can you believe that he voted for Gary Johnson?
Why wouldn’t I .
Run those three again and I'll vote for him again.
HA!!! HE SAW IT!!!

HOW'S THE IGNORE FEATURE WORKING, COWARD??
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KC_
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Re: Democrats Agree. They Are Coming For Our Freedoms

Post by KC_ » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:29 pm

evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:24 pm
KC_ wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:18 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:12 pm
KC_ wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:08 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:03 pm
KC_ wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:00 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:56 pm
KC_ wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:53 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:51 pm
KC_ wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:49 pm


Nah we have Obama care . Everything is fixed . I mean that’s what the Democrats said when they passed it. :nesaitpas:
We don't have the PPACA anymore. Without the individual mandate it can't work. No one said everything was fixed. Some were honest in saying that it was a step towards single-payer which is the goal.
Their are a great many people that like their insurance and want to keep it. Come up with a plan that leaves them out of it and maybe it will be more popular. How about Medicare for some more.
There is utility in saving lives and not ruining people financially. The Medicare for all plan is quite popular. I would recommend getting comfortable with the idea that for-profit health care is going away. It's inevitable. We may first get a public option depending on who gets elected, but single payer is coming.
Tax credits to pay for insurance premiums makes more sense. We don’t have to completely change our Heath care system to make it more affordable for the lower middle class and the poor. I still think people should be able to choose what level of care they want if any.
We do have to completely change it. For-profit doesn't work in health care. It can't. The incentive isn't in good outcomes. That's a part of the reason why we pay so much more per capita than other industrialized nations. If the incentive were to cure rather than treat the cost would come way down.
I think that’s overly optimistic. Tens of Millions like their healthcare and they want to keep. Why do they have to lose the right to choose ? The government forcing a lower standard of care on people against their will. That is the anti-liberty aspect of it .
They haven't even seen what they will be offered yet. A more efficient system that costs less with a high standard of care will be beneficial to all. We don't get a choice on everything in life. I pay taxes to fund schools even though I don't have kids. We don't get to choose which cop patrols our neighborhood or which fireman puts out the fire on our property. In all cases, for good reason. Health care is no different. People should say they don't want something when they don't even know what it is.
If you don’t like the community you live in you can move to one that you do. The federal government should be taking choice away from its citizens and forcing an inferior system on them. Medicare is inferior to good private insurance. Let people choose what they want if anything.
You still don't get to choose those things. Whether or not the product, which is unknown at this time, is inferior is a personal opinion. People are going to choose the system that cost less and gives them the same or better outcomes. If wealthier people want to supplement their coverage with private insurance, something Canada allows, then so be it. Making every doctor "in network" is something that appeals to everyone. Imagine not getting his with a surprise bill from an anesthesiologist because even though your doctor and the hospital were "in network" the anesthesiologist wasn't and no one told you.
The problem with it is that it substitutes individual choice with government mandate . Don’t you think people should have choice when it comes to their health.
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Evil
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Re: Democrats Agree. They Are Coming For Our Freedoms

Post by Evil » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:40 pm

KC_ wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:29 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:24 pm
KC_ wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:18 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:12 pm
KC_ wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:08 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:03 pm
KC_ wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:00 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:56 pm
KC_ wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:53 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:51 pm


We don't have the PPACA anymore. Without the individual mandate it can't work. No one said everything was fixed. Some were honest in saying that it was a step towards single-payer which is the goal.
Their are a great many people that like their insurance and want to keep it. Come up with a plan that leaves them out of it and maybe it will be more popular. How about Medicare for some more.
There is utility in saving lives and not ruining people financially. The Medicare for all plan is quite popular. I would recommend getting comfortable with the idea that for-profit health care is going away. It's inevitable. We may first get a public option depending on who gets elected, but single payer is coming.
Tax credits to pay for insurance premiums makes more sense. We don’t have to completely change our Heath care system to make it more affordable for the lower middle class and the poor. I still think people should be able to choose what level of care they want if any.
We do have to completely change it. For-profit doesn't work in health care. It can't. The incentive isn't in good outcomes. That's a part of the reason why we pay so much more per capita than other industrialized nations. If the incentive were to cure rather than treat the cost would come way down.
I think that’s overly optimistic. Tens of Millions like their healthcare and they want to keep. Why do they have to lose the right to choose ? The government forcing a lower standard of care on people against their will. That is the anti-liberty aspect of it .
They haven't even seen what they will be offered yet. A more efficient system that costs less with a high standard of care will be beneficial to all. We don't get a choice on everything in life. I pay taxes to fund schools even though I don't have kids. We don't get to choose which cop patrols our neighborhood or which fireman puts out the fire on our property. In all cases, for good reason. Health care is no different. People should say they don't want something when they don't even know what it is.
If you don’t like the community you live in you can move to one that you do. The federal government should be taking choice away from its citizens and forcing an inferior system on them. Medicare is inferior to good private insurance. Let people choose what they want if anything.
You still don't get to choose those things. Whether or not the product, which is unknown at this time, is inferior is a personal opinion. People are going to choose the system that cost less and gives them the same or better outcomes. If wealthier people want to supplement their coverage with private insurance, something Canada allows, then so be it. Making every doctor "in network" is something that appeals to everyone. Imagine not getting his with a surprise bill from an anesthesiologist because even though your doctor and the hospital were "in network" the anesthesiologist wasn't and no one told you.
The problem with it is that it substitutes individual choice with government mandate . Don’t you think people should have choice when it comes to their health.
There are many things we don't get a choice on. Those few things are for good reason. Health care should be, and will be, one of those things soon. You rarely get a choice when it comes to health. Even the most healthy person can have a traumatic accident or a life-threatening diagnosis. The utility is in not letting people die because of financial reasons not in allowing people to profit off those accidents and diagnoses.
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KC_
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Re: Democrats Agree. They Are Coming For Our Freedoms

Post by KC_ » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:47 pm

evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:40 pm
KC_ wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:29 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:24 pm
KC_ wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:18 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:12 pm
KC_ wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:08 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:03 pm
KC_ wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:00 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:56 pm
KC_ wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:53 pm


Their are a great many people that like their insurance and want to keep it. Come up with a plan that leaves them out of it and maybe it will be more popular. How about Medicare for some more.
There is utility in saving lives and not ruining people financially. The Medicare for all plan is quite popular. I would recommend getting comfortable with the idea that for-profit health care is going away. It's inevitable. We may first get a public option depending on who gets elected, but single payer is coming.
Tax credits to pay for insurance premiums makes more sense. We don’t have to completely change our Heath care system to make it more affordable for the lower middle class and the poor. I still think people should be able to choose what level of care they want if any.
We do have to completely change it. For-profit doesn't work in health care. It can't. The incentive isn't in good outcomes. That's a part of the reason why we pay so much more per capita than other industrialized nations. If the incentive were to cure rather than treat the cost would come way down.
I think that’s overly optimistic. Tens of Millions like their healthcare and they want to keep. Why do they have to lose the right to choose ? The government forcing a lower standard of care on people against their will. That is the anti-liberty aspect of it .
They haven't even seen what they will be offered yet. A more efficient system that costs less with a high standard of care will be beneficial to all. We don't get a choice on everything in life. I pay taxes to fund schools even though I don't have kids. We don't get to choose which cop patrols our neighborhood or which fireman puts out the fire on our property. In all cases, for good reason. Health care is no different. People should say they don't want something when they don't even know what it is.
If you don’t like the community you live in you can move to one that you do. The federal government should be taking choice away from its citizens and forcing an inferior system on them. Medicare is inferior to good private insurance. Let people choose what they want if anything.
You still don't get to choose those things. Whether or not the product, which is unknown at this time, is inferior is a personal opinion. People are going to choose the system that cost less and gives them the same or better outcomes. If wealthier people want to supplement their coverage with private insurance, something Canada allows, then so be it. Making every doctor "in network" is something that appeals to everyone. Imagine not getting his with a surprise bill from an anesthesiologist because even though your doctor and the hospital were "in network" the anesthesiologist wasn't and no one told you.
The problem with it is that it substitutes individual choice with government mandate . Don’t you think people should have choice when it comes to their health.
There are many things we don't get a choice on. Those few things are for good reason. Health care should be, and will be, one of those things soon. You rarely get a choice when it comes to health. Even the most healthy person can have a traumatic accident or a life-threatening diagnosis. The utility is in not letting people die because of financial reasons not in allowing people to profit off those accidents and diagnoses.
It hasn’t been for over 200 years and it really doesn’t have to change. Think of it like you do about abortion. People deserve the right to choose even if we disagree with their choice.
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“I’d rather die standing up than live on my knees “
Stephane Charbonnier

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Evil
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Re: Democrats Agree. They Are Coming For Our Freedoms

Post by Evil » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:52 pm

KC_ wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:47 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:40 pm
KC_ wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:29 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:24 pm
KC_ wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:18 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:12 pm
KC_ wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:08 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:03 pm
KC_ wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:00 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:56 pm


There is utility in saving lives and not ruining people financially. The Medicare for all plan is quite popular. I would recommend getting comfortable with the idea that for-profit health care is going away. It's inevitable. We may first get a public option depending on who gets elected, but single payer is coming.
Tax credits to pay for insurance premiums makes more sense. We don’t have to completely change our Heath care system to make it more affordable for the lower middle class and the poor. I still think people should be able to choose what level of care they want if any.
We do have to completely change it. For-profit doesn't work in health care. It can't. The incentive isn't in good outcomes. That's a part of the reason why we pay so much more per capita than other industrialized nations. If the incentive were to cure rather than treat the cost would come way down.
I think that’s overly optimistic. Tens of Millions like their healthcare and they want to keep. Why do they have to lose the right to choose ? The government forcing a lower standard of care on people against their will. That is the anti-liberty aspect of it .
They haven't even seen what they will be offered yet. A more efficient system that costs less with a high standard of care will be beneficial to all. We don't get a choice on everything in life. I pay taxes to fund schools even though I don't have kids. We don't get to choose which cop patrols our neighborhood or which fireman puts out the fire on our property. In all cases, for good reason. Health care is no different. People should say they don't want something when they don't even know what it is.
If you don’t like the community you live in you can move to one that you do. The federal government should be taking choice away from its citizens and forcing an inferior system on them. Medicare is inferior to good private insurance. Let people choose what they want if anything.
You still don't get to choose those things. Whether or not the product, which is unknown at this time, is inferior is a personal opinion. People are going to choose the system that cost less and gives them the same or better outcomes. If wealthier people want to supplement their coverage with private insurance, something Canada allows, then so be it. Making every doctor "in network" is something that appeals to everyone. Imagine not getting his with a surprise bill from an anesthesiologist because even though your doctor and the hospital were "in network" the anesthesiologist wasn't and no one told you.
The problem with it is that it substitutes individual choice with government mandate . Don’t you think people should have choice when it comes to their health.
There are many things we don't get a choice on. Those few things are for good reason. Health care should be, and will be, one of those things soon. You rarely get a choice when it comes to health. Even the most healthy person can have a traumatic accident or a life-threatening diagnosis. The utility is in not letting people die because of financial reasons not in allowing people to profit off those accidents and diagnoses.
It hasn’t been for over 200 years and it really doesn’t have to change. Think of it like you do about abortion. People deserve the right to choose even if we disagree with their choice.
Times change. Health care now is nothing like it was 200 years ago. It's not abortion. It's not like abortion. We aren't going to agree. We've both stated our case. I'm out.
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"When the speech condemns a free press, you are hearing the words of a tyrant."

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