About 200 House Democrats Now Support Ban On Self Defense Weapons

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evilconempire
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Re: About 200 House Democrats Now Support Ban On Self Defense Weapons

Post by evilconempire » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:36 pm

psk836 wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:35 pm
Capital punishment even.

In fact, you cannot be steadfastly against the death penalty and pro abortion.
I'm pro-life. I just don't think that I get to make that decision for others.
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KC_
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Re: About 200 House Democrats Now Support Ban On Self Defense Weapons

Post by KC_ » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:43 pm

evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:35 pm
KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:33 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:23 pm
KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:21 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:17 pm
KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:14 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:08 pm
KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:03 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:57 pm
KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:53 pm


Opinions vary . At least I am consistent. You are not . what could be more innocent form of life than a fetus ?
Opinions always vary. And here we go again with the making it personal. The mother some would force to carry it could be every bit as innocent. Abortion isn't carried out as a form of punishment though. That's the crux of the matter.
I thought you said you didn’t have a problem making it personal, not that I am. Your argument isn’t consistent when you bring innocence into it. Our criminal justice system isn’t perfect but on net it works in positive way for society. Heinous crimes need the ultimate penalty. Executing such scum is good on net for society.
You can do whatever you want. If you have to go after me personally then go after me personally. I think it's funny.

Guilt or innocence is imperative when speaking about punishment. Without guilt the injustice is, at a minimum, two-fold. Executing people provide no utility for society. It's costly, it provides no additional deterrent, and it kills innocent people.
I didn’t go after you personally , though that’s how you take criticism of your arguments or positions. As soon as you invoke possible innocence your abortion argument collapses. People who are executed were all found guilty by a jury of their peers who chose to invoke the death penalty. In the eyes of the law they are not innocent. Just as aborted fetuses are not innocent lives in the eyes of the law.
"You are not."

No, that's you going after me personally rather than the position.

No, innocence and guilt can't be left out when speaking about punishment for crimes. Found guilty by a jury doesn't mean the persona is guilty. Mistakes are made and made often. Abortion is not about punishment for crimes and therefore guilt or innocence is irrelevant.
Exactly right. Abortion is not a punishment for a crime , it is punishment for existence. Killing for existence has to be far more arbitrary than executing a convicted criminal who committed a heinous crime.
Abortion is not a punishment at all. Forcing a woman to carry to term is though. A punishment just for having a womb.
It is punishment for the fetus. It’s life is snuffed out .
It's not a punishment at all. Punishment is carried out for some perceived offense and as deterrent to it happening again. There is no perceived offense and there is no possibility of it happening again.
Ok it’s a non punishment arbitrary execution of a life. :nesaitpas:
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evilconempire
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Re: About 200 House Democrats Now Support Ban On Self Defense Weapons

Post by evilconempire » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:45 pm

KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:43 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:35 pm
KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:33 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:23 pm
KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:21 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:17 pm
KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:14 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:08 pm
KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:03 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:57 pm


Opinions always vary. And here we go again with the making it personal. The mother some would force to carry it could be every bit as innocent. Abortion isn't carried out as a form of punishment though. That's the crux of the matter.
I thought you said you didn’t have a problem making it personal, not that I am. Your argument isn’t consistent when you bring innocence into it. Our criminal justice system isn’t perfect but on net it works in positive way for society. Heinous crimes need the ultimate penalty. Executing such scum is good on net for society.
You can do whatever you want. If you have to go after me personally then go after me personally. I think it's funny.

Guilt or innocence is imperative when speaking about punishment. Without guilt the injustice is, at a minimum, two-fold. Executing people provide no utility for society. It's costly, it provides no additional deterrent, and it kills innocent people.
I didn’t go after you personally , though that’s how you take criticism of your arguments or positions. As soon as you invoke possible innocence your abortion argument collapses. People who are executed were all found guilty by a jury of their peers who chose to invoke the death penalty. In the eyes of the law they are not innocent. Just as aborted fetuses are not innocent lives in the eyes of the law.
"You are not."

No, that's you going after me personally rather than the position.

No, innocence and guilt can't be left out when speaking about punishment for crimes. Found guilty by a jury doesn't mean the persona is guilty. Mistakes are made and made often. Abortion is not about punishment for crimes and therefore guilt or innocence is irrelevant.
Exactly right. Abortion is not a punishment for a crime , it is punishment for existence. Killing for existence has to be far more arbitrary than executing a convicted criminal who committed a heinous crime.
Abortion is not a punishment at all. Forcing a woman to carry to term is though. A punishment just for having a womb.
It is punishment for the fetus. It’s life is snuffed out .
It's not a punishment at all. Punishment is carried out for some perceived offense and as deterrent to it happening again. There is no perceived offense and there is no possibility of it happening again.
Ok it’s a non punishment arbitrary execution of a life. :nesaitpas:
ar·bi·trar·y
/ˈärbəˌtrerē/
adjective
based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.

I suppose it might be arbitrary for some.
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"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore.”

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KC_
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Re: About 200 House Democrats Now Support Ban On Self Defense Weapons

Post by KC_ » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:48 pm

evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:45 pm
KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:43 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:35 pm
KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:33 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:23 pm
KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:21 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:17 pm
KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:14 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:08 pm
KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:03 pm


I thought you said you didn’t have a problem making it personal, not that I am. Your argument isn’t consistent when you bring innocence into it. Our criminal justice system isn’t perfect but on net it works in positive way for society. Heinous crimes need the ultimate penalty. Executing such scum is good on net for society.
You can do whatever you want. If you have to go after me personally then go after me personally. I think it's funny.

Guilt or innocence is imperative when speaking about punishment. Without guilt the injustice is, at a minimum, two-fold. Executing people provide no utility for society. It's costly, it provides no additional deterrent, and it kills innocent people.
I didn’t go after you personally , though that’s how you take criticism of your arguments or positions. As soon as you invoke possible innocence your abortion argument collapses. People who are executed were all found guilty by a jury of their peers who chose to invoke the death penalty. In the eyes of the law they are not innocent. Just as aborted fetuses are not innocent lives in the eyes of the law.
"You are not."

No, that's you going after me personally rather than the position.

No, innocence and guilt can't be left out when speaking about punishment for crimes. Found guilty by a jury doesn't mean the persona is guilty. Mistakes are made and made often. Abortion is not about punishment for crimes and therefore guilt or innocence is irrelevant.
Exactly right. Abortion is not a punishment for a crime , it is punishment for existence. Killing for existence has to be far more arbitrary than executing a convicted criminal who committed a heinous crime.
Abortion is not a punishment at all. Forcing a woman to carry to term is though. A punishment just for having a womb.
It is punishment for the fetus. It’s life is snuffed out .
It's not a punishment at all. Punishment is carried out for some perceived offense and as deterrent to it happening again. There is no perceived offense and there is no possibility of it happening again.
Ok it’s a non punishment arbitrary execution of a life. :nesaitpas:
ar·bi·trar·y
/ˈärbəˌtrerē/
adjective
based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.

I suppose it might be arbitrary for some.
In any case it is an execution of a life ,though feel free to try and make it more palatable with a rosy description.
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Stephane Charbonnier

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evilconempire
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Re: About 200 House Democrats Now Support Ban On Self Defense Weapons

Post by evilconempire » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:50 pm

KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:48 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:45 pm
KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:43 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:35 pm
KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:33 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:23 pm
KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:21 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:17 pm
KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:14 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:08 pm


You can do whatever you want. If you have to go after me personally then go after me personally. I think it's funny.

Guilt or innocence is imperative when speaking about punishment. Without guilt the injustice is, at a minimum, two-fold. Executing people provide no utility for society. It's costly, it provides no additional deterrent, and it kills innocent people.
I didn’t go after you personally , though that’s how you take criticism of your arguments or positions. As soon as you invoke possible innocence your abortion argument collapses. People who are executed were all found guilty by a jury of their peers who chose to invoke the death penalty. In the eyes of the law they are not innocent. Just as aborted fetuses are not innocent lives in the eyes of the law.
"You are not."

No, that's you going after me personally rather than the position.

No, innocence and guilt can't be left out when speaking about punishment for crimes. Found guilty by a jury doesn't mean the persona is guilty. Mistakes are made and made often. Abortion is not about punishment for crimes and therefore guilt or innocence is irrelevant.
Exactly right. Abortion is not a punishment for a crime , it is punishment for existence. Killing for existence has to be far more arbitrary than executing a convicted criminal who committed a heinous crime.
Abortion is not a punishment at all. Forcing a woman to carry to term is though. A punishment just for having a womb.
It is punishment for the fetus. It’s life is snuffed out .
It's not a punishment at all. Punishment is carried out for some perceived offense and as deterrent to it happening again. There is no perceived offense and there is no possibility of it happening again.
Ok it’s a non punishment arbitrary execution of a life. :nesaitpas:
ar·bi·trar·y
/ˈärbəˌtrerē/
adjective
based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.

I suppose it might be arbitrary for some.
In any case it is an execution of a life ,though feel free to try and make it more palatable with a rosy description.
Oh, we're still going on this. Well, in most cases I don't think it fits the definition of a life, but there are some exceptions where it is. In those cases it's definitely not arbitrary as it is people making the seemingly impossible choice between who lives and who dies.
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KC_
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Re: About 200 House Democrats Now Support Ban On Self Defense Weapons

Post by KC_ » Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:03 pm

evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:50 pm
KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:48 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:45 pm
KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:43 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:35 pm
KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:33 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:23 pm
KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:21 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:17 pm
KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:14 pm


I didn’t go after you personally , though that’s how you take criticism of your arguments or positions. As soon as you invoke possible innocence your abortion argument collapses. People who are executed were all found guilty by a jury of their peers who chose to invoke the death penalty. In the eyes of the law they are not innocent. Just as aborted fetuses are not innocent lives in the eyes of the law.
"You are not."

No, that's you going after me personally rather than the position.

No, innocence and guilt can't be left out when speaking about punishment for crimes. Found guilty by a jury doesn't mean the persona is guilty. Mistakes are made and made often. Abortion is not about punishment for crimes and therefore guilt or innocence is irrelevant.
Exactly right. Abortion is not a punishment for a crime , it is punishment for existence. Killing for existence has to be far more arbitrary than executing a convicted criminal who committed a heinous crime.
Abortion is not a punishment at all. Forcing a woman to carry to term is though. A punishment just for having a womb.
It is punishment for the fetus. It’s life is snuffed out .
It's not a punishment at all. Punishment is carried out for some perceived offense and as deterrent to it happening again. There is no perceived offense and there is no possibility of it happening again.
Ok it’s a non punishment arbitrary execution of a life. :nesaitpas:
ar·bi·trar·y
/ˈärbəˌtrerē/
adjective
based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.

I suppose it might be arbitrary for some.
In any case it is an execution of a life ,though feel free to try and make it more palatable with a rosy description.
Oh, we're still going on this. Well, in most cases I don't think it fits the definition of a life, but there are some exceptions where it is. In those cases it's definitely not arbitrary as it is people making the seemingly impossible choice between who lives and who dies.
Clearly it isn’t an impossible choice. There is loads of evidence to use in making the choice. I suspect in many cases the choice is quite easy for many.
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evilconempire
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Re: About 200 House Democrats Now Support Ban On Self Defense Weapons

Post by evilconempire » Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:06 pm

KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:03 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:50 pm
KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:48 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:45 pm
KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:43 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:35 pm
KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:33 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:23 pm
KC_ wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:21 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:17 pm


"You are not."

No, that's you going after me personally rather than the position.

No, innocence and guilt can't be left out when speaking about punishment for crimes. Found guilty by a jury doesn't mean the persona is guilty. Mistakes are made and made often. Abortion is not about punishment for crimes and therefore guilt or innocence is irrelevant.
Exactly right. Abortion is not a punishment for a crime , it is punishment for existence. Killing for existence has to be far more arbitrary than executing a convicted criminal who committed a heinous crime.
Abortion is not a punishment at all. Forcing a woman to carry to term is though. A punishment just for having a womb.
It is punishment for the fetus. It’s life is snuffed out .
It's not a punishment at all. Punishment is carried out for some perceived offense and as deterrent to it happening again. There is no perceived offense and there is no possibility of it happening again.
Ok it’s a non punishment arbitrary execution of a life. :nesaitpas:
ar·bi·trar·y
/ˈärbəˌtrerē/
adjective
based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.

I suppose it might be arbitrary for some.
In any case it is an execution of a life ,though feel free to try and make it more palatable with a rosy description.
Oh, we're still going on this. Well, in most cases I don't think it fits the definition of a life, but there are some exceptions where it is. In those cases it's definitely not arbitrary as it is people making the seemingly impossible choice between who lives and who dies.
Clearly it isn’t an impossible choice. There is loads of evidence to use in making the choice. I suspect in many cases the choice is quite easy for many.
"seemingly impossible" SMH

It's probably easy for some, especially in the early stages, but it's not easy for most. The data proves that out. All of the criteria considered is proof that there is nothing arbitrary about it.
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Re: About 200 House Democrats Now Support Ban On Self Defense Weapons

Post by barrysoetoro » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:40 pm

evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:47 pm
psk836 wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:43 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:36 pm
psk836 wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:34 pm
evilconempire wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:30 pm
The faster you carry it out the more likely it is that you kill an innocent person.

You should stick to your principles then instead of abandoning them and undercutting your own position.
No, if there is any real doubt I would not want the death penalty used. I think it should be reserved for incontrovertible cases. I agree that there have been injustices and prosecutorial abuses and I do not like that any more than you do. I just won't use that as an excuse for leniency for the guilty.
If there is any doubt then there shouldn't be a conviction. It's not a deterrent and it ends up killing innocent people. Anyone that is truly pro-life would oppose its use in any case.
People are convicted all the time on circumstantial evidence. And most of them deserve it.

I don't know what to tell you but, I am pro life and I support the death penalty, so there must be some flaw to your logic there.
You can't be pro-life and support death. You can say you are, but the truth is another matter.
Sure, like how you go from being anti Bush to pro McCain, voted for him, never for 0bama, not for Hillary (0bama part 2), and then support a libertarian.

You got a lot to talk.

Bump this for me so evil sees it.
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Re: About 200 House Democrats Now Support Ban On Self Defense Weapons

Post by brookboy123 » Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:31 am

Only 200?

Pols will always disappoint.....
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