The Beginnings Of A Solution

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psk836
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The Beginnings Of A Solution

Post by psk836 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:15 am

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/sh ... ia-n848486

These shooters very often tip their hands long before they act, and that is when we need to isolate and corral them, BEFORE THEY ACT. As is the case if we discover child porn or child porn website traffic, if we discover somebody making school or other mass shooting threats, threatening to become a mass shooter, or visiting terrorist or bomb making websites, I say detain them then. Make it a felony offense to do these things so that we can at least isolate, treat or even incarcerate before innocents get hurt.
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Re: The Beginnings Of A Solution

Post by psk836 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:34 am

My point is that most of these people self identify long before they actually shoot anybody. And it is when their ideas are in the nascent state, they typically are not ready to act. What is holding them back? They have a stronger desire NOT to act, or the inability to follow through on their threats. So that is the time to stop them, with enforcement power that can isolate or at least prevent acquisition of the means to follow through.
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Re: The Beginnings Of A Solution

Post by psk836 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:46 am

psk836 wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:34 am
My point is that most of these people self identify long before they actually shoot anybody. And it is when their ideas are in the nascent state, they typically are not ready to act. What is holding them back? They have a stronger desire NOT to act, or the inability to follow through on their threats. So that is the time to stop them, with enforcement power that can isolate or at least prevent acquisition of the means to follow through.
See this is what I am talking about:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -chat.html

He is telling anybody who will listen to stop him. Instead we ignored him, until he had the wherewithal to act on his crazy ideas.
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chucky
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Re: The Beginnings Of A Solution

Post by chucky » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:46 am

psk836 wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:34 am
My point is that most of these people self identify long before they actually shoot anybody. And it is when their ideas are in the nascent state, they typically are not ready to act. What is holding them back? They have a stronger desire NOT to act, or the inability to follow through on their threats. So that is the time to stop them, with enforcement power that can isolate or at least prevent acquisition of the means to follow through.
I always worry about the concept of pre-crime. One can’t fairly punish an individual because we think they might do something in the future.
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psk836
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Re: The Beginnings Of A Solution

Post by psk836 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:00 pm

chucky wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:46 am
psk836 wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:34 am
My point is that most of these people self identify long before they actually shoot anybody. And it is when their ideas are in the nascent state, they typically are not ready to act. What is holding them back? They have a stronger desire NOT to act, or the inability to follow through on their threats. So that is the time to stop them, with enforcement power that can isolate or at least prevent acquisition of the means to follow through.
I always worry about the concept of pre-crime. One can’t fairly punish an individual because we think they might do something in the future.
In this instance not only did this guy send out warning messages, he also visited bomb making websites. Personally I think acquiring the know how to commit terror on the public should be criminalizes, just as visiting a child porn website is criminal. Posting warnings should automatically qualify somebody as banned from purchasing firearms until the notation is cleared, at least.
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Re: The Beginnings Of A Solution

Post by DallasDimeBags » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:04 pm

chucky wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:46 am
psk836 wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:34 am
My point is that most of these people self identify long before they actually shoot anybody. And it is when their ideas are in the nascent state, they typically are not ready to act. What is holding them back? They have a stronger desire NOT to act, or the inability to follow through on their threats. So that is the time to stop them, with enforcement power that can isolate or at least prevent acquisition of the means to follow through.
I always worry about the concept of pre-crime. One can’t fairly punish an individual because we think they might do something in the future.
Ever see the movie "Minority Report"?
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chucky
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Re: The Beginnings Of A Solution

Post by chucky » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:35 pm

DallasDimeBags wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:04 pm
chucky wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:46 am
psk836 wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:34 am
My point is that most of these people self identify long before they actually shoot anybody. And it is when their ideas are in the nascent state, they typically are not ready to act. What is holding them back? They have a stronger desire NOT to act, or the inability to follow through on their threats. So that is the time to stop them, with enforcement power that can isolate or at least prevent acquisition of the means to follow through.
I always worry about the concept of pre-crime. One can’t fairly punish an individual because we think they might do something in the future.
Ever see the movie "Minority Report"?
Yes , it was very interesting.
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psk836
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Re: The Beginnings Of A Solution

Post by psk836 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:30 am

Pre crime worries are a valid point and I am typically not one to surrender personal liberties too easily. But in this situation practically everyone on the board recognizes that there were very strong indications that, when considered after the fact, were strong indications of what this guy was going to do. Many have argued that our gun laws failed us because they did not stop him from acquiring weapons. Others argue that law enforcement failed us because nobody acted to stop him when it was clear that he was dangerous. I think perhaps both arguments are right and we should consider changing the rules to stop these people before they are ready, physically, economically or emotionally, to act out their threats
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psk836
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Re: The Beginnings Of A Solution

Post by psk836 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:31 am

chucky wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:35 pm
DallasDimeBags wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:04 pm
chucky wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:46 am
psk836 wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:34 am
My point is that most of these people self identify long before they actually shoot anybody. And it is when their ideas are in the nascent state, they typically are not ready to act. What is holding them back? They have a stronger desire NOT to act, or the inability to follow through on their threats. So that is the time to stop them, with enforcement power that can isolate or at least prevent acquisition of the means to follow through.
I always worry about the concept of pre-crime. One can’t fairly punish an individual because we think they might do something in the future.
Ever see the movie "Minority Report"?
Yes , it was very interesting.
Interesting and stupid all at the same time.
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Re: The Beginnings Of A Solution

Post by nolaxride » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:46 am

psk836 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:30 am
Pre crime worries are a valid point and I am typically not one to surrender personal liberties too easily. But in this situation practically everyone on the board recognizes that there were very strong indications that, when considered after the fact, were strong indications of what this guy was going to do. Many have argued that our gun laws failed us because they did not stop him from acquiring weapons. Others argue that law enforcement failed us because nobody acted to stop him when it was clear that he was dangerous. I think perhaps both arguments are right and we should consider changing the rules to stop these people before they are ready, physically, economically or emotionally, to act out their threats
Your points are well made. But IMHO, we also need to look at the gun laws, and specifically what we're allowing the public to buy. The Las Vegas shooter was using an AR-15. The Orlando nightclub shooting was using an AR-15. And as we saw in Vegas, there are too many mods out there that will turn that into an automatic weapon. Granted, the shooter could have used a shotgun or a handgun. I doubt the result would have been so deadly.
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